Ren Jianming Fu Yanhua about clean government guest Sohu Record

 Ren Jianming Fu Yanhua about clean government guest Sohu Record 
Source: Justice Network
Moderator: friends, Hello everybody! Today we go to the Anti-Corruption Studies, Tsinghua University by the Professor Ren Jianming, and the National People's Congress of Shandong Province, Zaozhuang City Attorney's Procuratorate Fu Yanhua, a guest we Sohu.com and Justice Network joint interview room, to how to prevent official corruption and maintaining cheap, to explore the following two guests with the majority of your friends say hello.
Ren Jianming: Sohu and Justice Network, two networks of friends Hello everybody, very pleased to have such an opportunity to work with our discussion on the issue and clean government.
Fu Yanhua: two network users, Hello everybody ! am very happy to talk about our country and clean government, but also a learning opportunity to individuals.
Moderator: first call of any teacher, any teacher is an expert in this area, the first call to talk about any teacher the majority of users honesty regime officials, many people are not very aware of our party's leading cadres honesty system, to our knowledge related to please tell us about?
Ren Jianming: Honest and Clean honesty system, called wide by the year 2000 practice around there, around the issue of leading cadres innovative ways that leaders matter publicly. In December 31, 2003, the Central Party supervision regulations promulgated put Honest and Clean on the formal system as one of ten This system is an important system of inner-party supervision. Party supervision regulations require basically the Honest and Clean Government dominated the Central Committee of the Central Political Bureau to report on his work to the honesty, so basically . I see that after the promulgation of the Inner-Party Supervision, in fact, there are various places to go faster, some leading cadres in some places is on television Honest and Clean. how to improve this system, making it further in the supervision play a greater role or meaningful.
Moderator: end of each year, relatively low number of officials are beginning the work, but many users believe that the honesty of many officials often in the form of this aspect of work thing, because let things written on the end of the year, a report about a year to their low-cost side of things in the honest, honesty itself should be a process of introspection to do the problem so that a more embarrassing is that honesty and not inexpensive, became the formalism, there are extreme users that should be repealed this provision, any views on what teachers do in this respect, is not this statement a bit extreme?
Ren Jianming: users of this criticism has some reason, from the anti-corruption investigation in some cases our point of view, users hope certainly hope we can find problems Honest and Clean, this is our initiative to identify problems within a system, hoping that they play a role, but the results rarely look through the report on his work honesty that problem, so we made all kinds of criticism. I personally think that this can not completely deny this system, some of the criticisms I see friends, Honest and Clean is a show, what show honesty, a valid The system of one public, one is to monitor, if not openly, then monitor how to monitor it asymmetric, so the monitoring system at all if the basis or the public. Honest and Clean is a public, that is, do I want to talk about this issue clear, but could not speak clearly is to see the public is not truthful, there exists a final cover.
Moderator: That is not mentioned by Honest and Clean out what questions they have, are reported through the Planning Commission check out what.
Ren Jianming: So that we originally designed this system is good, but how is this to speak out, there are some foreign systems, such as the property declaration system, gifts handed, are like this, just open the cadres of different issues, Honest and Clean aspects of integrity is to make public what is Zenmeyangzuo to be true. abroad how to ensure true? one is not truthful if so, disposal is relatively heavy.
Moderator: But who is watching is not real then?
Ren Jianming: that you speak of this matter must be open, for example about a house, car things, but insiders say that I know where you have a house, the house is not to say that someone bought for you, this house is someone else's name but in the long term to you live, you say it, but the truth is not also depends on the phenomenon of external public supervision and debriefing, offset each other in order to finally make public the facts, so that subsequent monitoring can be effective in this respect we are now the problem is not that a good solution. I see, Zhejiang, Hangzhou, a work recently done, is to have a debriefing state cheaper ways of implementation, is to take this requirement very fine, talk about your children out of family practitioners situation, your house, car, our economy and investment situation, the project in accordance with the provisions of the report, of course, than other places to do carefully, but there are not effective? Or say you want to open, open to accept supervision and inspection, you have no say, talking about things that are not true. such as telling a child to work abroad this matter may be inaccurate or have a public, I think in order to promote cadres to speak out the real situation, this disclosure should be some coercive power, if not mandatory, not inspection, not public, internal, then this will into a form.
Moderator: Fu teachers, specific to our prosecution system, the leadership is not the end of the year, as some have done this kind of work, you can not from their own point of view, you can feel each year This report, binding or enforceable on their own how to, can talk about you?
Fu Yanhua: Honest and Clean the report should say, as our prosecution in accordance with the requirements of higher level I think there is a role, not simple form, because their work through the past few years by this act to which we consolidate, but also a show, but also for their oversight.
Moderator: Let's let the hospital and police officers to write reports?
Fu Yanhua: Yes, party members generally Xiangquan Yuan police officers.
Moderator: openness is relatively strong.
Fu Yanhua: Yes.
Moderator: The main piece is the honest behavior.
Fu Yanhua: Yes. This is like just any teacher said, in a certain range is still very clear.
Moderator: ordinary people with a better understanding of that.
Fu Yanhua: Yes, a better understanding.
Moderator: There are no police officers would later write in your report the case of protesting?
Fu Yanhua: This situation has, if indeed not in place to do it, there really honest, they would have raised the issue, of course, the problem Some may be true, some may be false, but needs to be verified.
Moderator: Fu inspection I would like to know your Honest and Clean in all the police officers have a comment?
Fu Yanhua: have reviewed the cadres are generally higher, in the Commission for Discipline Inspection, higher offices, debriefing after the vote after the others to take away, take place later in the implementation of this really reflects the problem of the more prominent it would have to investigate this issue, This form of supervision will also be used as starting.
Moderator: Fu inspection, you were in so many years of work, honesty, of course we have requested in recent years, is there some leaders you know or know that his debriefing report to have been police officers that do not meet, said and done inconsistent, there is no such a situation? is not really stay in form, to the time we are all Hi I am, you are qualified, excellent, casual users who think this is complete fill in, put the file inside, this is serious, some not serious to throw away, so we do not seriously, listen to a report of a man is walking through field Nor does it mean that you are serious about the proposed right away, this is not not too much? Let there be no honesty report really was the case of dispute or dissatisfaction, practice of which No?
Fu Yanhua: practice, there is no face to face meeting in the evaluation proposed, but in the comments column on the problems reflect the problems, of course, the problem is real or fake can be reflected, after reflecting Let police officers illustrate the problem, but the General Assembly to speak out against this much.
Moderator: Let's be moderate with China relationship is very personal.
Fu Yanhua: In addition, as the prosecution is required of police officers very high, to try seeking, and leadership of each party member to be realistic, there are problems there is a problem, no problem, no problem, so the police officers insisted on seeking truth from facts.
Moderator: I think Fu review We say this should be done within the system reports prosecutors should be more real situation, I think we should be reflected in the prosecution system in this regard is basically no problem for us Prosecutor.
us to the next question Many people do not understand, honesty honesty of any teacher also mentioned in the end just above what is, in some places to report on what has to be a clearer example of several listed, but the provisions of Commission for Discipline Inspection has just started doing this when forwarding documents and did not point out, are using some vague words such as people can participate, but did not say that the people must be involved, this point is his openness is ambiguous. In addition, the content does not have a clear example is hard targets, you must speak your property, housing, although in some places to go faster on some, to do such a provision, where there is no other hard and fast rules, you can talk about here? Do you think to remain in the form of armed prevent it, should do what the system level specifications and construction?
Ren Jianming: I personally think that two aspects are important, the first aspect of the system or to refine the original as our party the regulations are relatively high levels of party rules, they can not do it very carefully. just saying Honest and Clean contents were leading cadres are clean to the provisions of regulations, of course many of us, and some people say we have 88 a closed, 86 are not allowed. What other occasions Honest and Clean Government's internal requirements are, as just mentioned is the Fu seized in the prosecution's meeting, local party and government leading bodies may be positive and above cadres Deputy level and above cadres, and some documents that the ruling party can be invited to participate, so this from the contents of the report, the report of the way, there are vague objects involved, primarily involved in leadership or in the government or state in the report on his work within the system Lian. I personally think this needs further refinement, the example from Hangzhou, the content is to say what he prone to problems, that is, to put this in the current refined. we know that house, car, tickets, wife, These children, including your financial investment in floating this vulnerable, prone to conflicts of interest, easy to use your right to influence or seek to own or to seek profit for stakeholders, so there is a more detailed entry you want to report for this.
In addition, we report the way that, for what.
Moderator: is the side of openness.
Ren Jianming: Yes. like a television can be, and I think this is good.
Moderator: This has very little of.
Ren Jianming: the contents of another report on his work, like the main leaders, members of the local leadership, as the major leading cadres should be the contents of the report you official government reports through our Web site public, so that not only the supervision of our government, if the report specification of it, the whole of society so open, so that the relevant public has of your information, it can, according to analysis, this effect will be better. After leading cadres think and do things that do not want to report this more difficult, so after a good role to play, that is, not to do so later, he knew the child, such as prosecutors or public security system, his children may be under the jurisdiction of the public security system company, in accordance with the regulations is not allowed, since this may be something to avoid. So I think the content should be detailed in the report, other reports, we should promote openness, so that the system role will continue to be reflected, otherwise it is easy to become a mere formality, that the report reflect the good end, over a period of, or problems. There are such a case, the three stresses education, Hu Changqing, the three stresses education assessed as excellent, quickly check out, this problem will make people more suspicious. is not intended that this system is not good, that is, how to make it effective, specific work needs to be done, we say that Honest and Clean is a monitoring system.
chair people: officials actually a system of self-regulation.
Ren Jianming: the law of self-discipline to rely on him.
host: report on his work is to rely on the authenticity of his supervision, he has a deterrent.
any Jian Ming: Yes, this is a very important foundation. we should now say that the Government of administrative affairs, party publicly, including the procuratorial work open, are very important, and now the public gradually to eliminate information asymmetry, so that the starting point for the entire monitoring system there, there will be a basis.
Moderator: Frederick Fu, Let's Procuratorate at the inside, you do prosecution work for so many years, those of us in the officials were investigating if there are any rules, for example, said he was at various conferences The report is also a very good sense, but they actually have their own money-making behind the coup, the general way what they sacked, and was discovered, through reporting or involved with the case, those who corrupt officials sacked or is found, there What law do?
Fu Yanhua: a regular, a leader in charge of the meeting on the Independent how they talk about how honest, how clean the lower level, but not the end of the meeting was the Independent Commission Against organs investigated, this is the report of his own heart is also very true, so he must show he is very honest honest meeting. there are so few cases, one is advertised himself as an honest, people look to the bottom, so below I do not doubt there were any problems, there is also another What are the requirements, but am also guilty, have found a problem, as if their future is also a shield, or through the reporting of this general approach is adopted because the previous reports to investigate, in fact, he got some wind, the situation has, of course, small. by report does have some problems identified, and finally brought to justice.
Ren Jianming: I add Fu inspection, I see some data, in the past we have done with our Independent studies have also checked some discipline contact, I have such a impression on the past I have learned at the local, they said the case of the general source of our cases, eighty seven per cent reported through letters and visits, I am very happy to report we petition this channel is very important. But I see the end of last year, early this year, the State Council Information Office held a press conference that we in the deputy secretary, Minister of Supervision them about a year, I look at that press conference is announced, and now we have 40% of the number of cases is through letters and visits to report found. in front of the data we are of course some cases, that is, partial data, we through the local Commission for Discipline Inspection to understand the data. If so, I think our letters and reports, of course, first of all that Our report is very important petition, another petition to report that we will continue to play a role, the other major international point of view, or petition the primary way to report.
Moderator: is not a corrupt official is to the end of his honesty of This year it myself when I say how much money, no one is honesty, I just asked that mean Fu inspection, we found that the prosecution is not outstanding cadres, honesty is good, just that doing honesty when the report was taken away.
Ren Jianming: I saw this data, because we are always attached great importance to this work, there may be more cases found by the ratio, such as Chen's case, out of social security case is involved, may be a report about him before the no.
Moderator: it may be suppressed by.
Ren Jianming: is also possible. like Li Chen's case, that is, five or six people report, this report has been insisting for years that people, that really is a very typical case. now because we do a lot of cases, possibly through the case itself may be very important.
users: Please give us any teacher to talk about general just you simply talked about the situation abroad, please compare the system, more comprehensive talk about foreign countries, such as Hong Kong is better to do clean government, the Hong Kong Independent Commission Against Corruption should be a model for something, you should be on this more authoritative experts, introduce them to guarantee their integrity in the aspects of how to do that? their rights, jurisdiction, there is a strong deterrent, on the officials have a great psychological deterrent, it is expected there that we can gradually Some useful deterrent as the introduction of the system or to control such a department, please tell us something about the situation.
Ren Jianming: We should say with the corruption of human society is a long struggle, my own observations of human Since thousands of years of corruption, and the history around us in this cycle rate, so the cycle rate is not only China, Mr. Huang Yanpei attention to our periodic law of China's feudal dynasties, in fact, human society is in a long time this phenomenon, it should be Speaking at the turn of the year 2000, may be observed in the 20th century in some countries around the world, basically get rid of corruption in some parts of this periodic law, was a success. One of my personal views can be based on evaluation of national youth index of Transparency International Almost six in front of the fifth, that is, more than 8 points, from 0 to 10 rating, the higher the score the better the clean condition, more than 8 points fifteen and sixteen countries and regions in recent years may be the best in Germany, this is not totally and absolutely, they generally do better. One is that they are less corruption, a serious, relatively minor addition, the system construction has been done to their situation can continue, he is not suddenly up one day and seriously, corruption and a serious outbreak. from observing their experience, because our Honest and Clean is a monitoring system, in the end is how they carry out supervision of officials.
Moderator: That China conditions it is possible to copy them over better system.
Ren Jianming: At least this principle, the regularity of the things we can certainly learn his supervision, one that is open and transparent government, we must through the legal system is perfect, is becoming a mandatory system. not just one aspect, relates to many aspects, like the United States in one hundred ninety-eight years, he formulated the , in fact, a number of reports, there is the most important part is the assets declaration that the United States more than 16 officials, and some other level is not high, but in a very critical position, regarded the directory listed, to declare your property. you took the time to put your property once reported out, to review by the Ethics Committee to review, there is no problem, your investment, the stock is not a problem. since there is a statutory annual time, that is, the incremental part of your report came out, there are other, there are gifts, with the re-employment after leaving the government with no problems. this legal requirement is that a number of issues that have been open, there are other laws that the government open and transparent.
like China, Hong Kong is like this, there is a system that your government officials to declare a number of issues, is now Administrative Officer, also published online, to accept that all of the supervision. now is the government increasingly strength of the more open and transparent, which is a prerequisite for supervision. We now have a number of reports, including last year amended the Central Political Bureau also discussed the major issues we originally reported, a number of issues leading cadres of the report the report and took the to the revision. But we do is a discipline within the party seems to be something, there is no clear law to regulate. we call them that regular, open and transparent does not mean that you use within the Government, in our is a direct-to-people-oriented voters, so the regularity of things we want to learn, that is, those of us report these matters to the whole society open and transparent public.
have to explain a case in point , that is our audit report, why the audit report also points is because the audit report is a public Web site on the Audit Commission, we have the legal, constitutional Ye Hao, Audit Ye Hao, just ask him to the NPC representative reported, the deputies of course, is the highest authority as an organ, but still part of the government, is our general government, or a part of. is your so-called open, not to say that open government is the people to us with the idea that the government now, the Government is entrusted by the people that we take public responsibility, open to the people, so the regularity of things do not simply copy the western countries, including Hong Kong, a particular region key system, but we must move in this direction, in fact we are moving in this direction.
another, for the supervision of the masses, for the supervision of our dedicated oversight body, to have legal protection. supervision of groups such security, reporting to the masses, protect ah, so that he dared to speak out the information he knew it, rather than retaliation, to report truthfully. I write today in the Procuratorial Daily Case Analysis That is a student at the Hong Kong school, worrying about my exams is not passed to the teacher ten thousand Hong Kong dollars, hoping to give him problems, the final report of the school teacher, and finally signed to the Independent Commission Against Corruption, as was the Internet connection, students who do not know each other . At that time the Independent Commission Against Corruption, says you can interview him, to know the students who had, or else nothing was. that an individual reports University of Hong Kong, do not know who, there is no contact from the beginning to be a bribe teachers who do not know, then let the matter rest, so to protect the rights of the people monitoring.
Similarly, we supervisory authority is the case, our Anti-Corruption Bureau, our discipline inspection, supervision, no such request, he no such concerns, so the regularity of things, so do good observing these countries, these two points are important, one is the prosecution, one is open and transparent government, and transparency to the government, to the public , we must do in this direction, if only the role of open government hit a big discount.
In addition, our supervision of the masses or the supervision of specialized oversight body, and his protection, people say you To protect him, can not be retaliation by a supervisor, special supervisory authority should have sufficient independence and authority to enable him to operate independently of resources to complete his work.
Moderator: Any teacher just mentioned , we have the protection of persons on the report, in fact we do in China, this is the most difficult, most difficult to do from this point to talk about Fu inspection, we received letters to report the situation's Procuratorate, or our annual report from the Petition how much can be placed on file there, and some real name not reported, Fu inspection can talk about the situation, reported receiving letters about this talk.
Fu Yanhua: The department reported that a report that someone in the past reflect the problems, these are real names, face to face directly report to the prosecution, in which case the general investigation of the cases is relatively high success rate. If a simple letter, phone report, more difficult one is the procedural aspects of investigation, clues regard it difficult, of course, when the report was to make things clear. Now a simple letter with a reported investigation, the case of the low success rate. We often publicity to educate the public to report to signed, through the executive branch action, but there are concerns, particularly civil service departments, some units, he still has some concerns, the general scope of a report to know this, so there are still reports of people worried.
Ren Jianming: a typical example, Anshan, Liaoning IRS Limei Juan, she is the National Tax Bureau staff, she was twice expelled from his public office, the Secretary is the woman of her, the last prosecution that the Secretary is a problem, and finally checked by the Secretary. But she was hit, as this matter, and incentives played their role, but the real name reporting or less.
Ren Jianming: relatively speaking, protection and incentives are both important, but the two said that protection is relatively more important than the reward, protection of a failure, then he suffered retaliation cost is simply not affordable. more serious example is Guo Guangyong example, he was 8 years report and sentenced him to detention for 2 years, because the body is not very good, to be more than a year, after 8 years is vindication, that is, you should not I re-education, is so over the past 16 years, he was more fortunate, and the final political or reversed.
Moderator: So I think a system in China to promote other aspects of the system will involve follow-up, in order to honesty than it is necessary to strengthen the supervision of a mere formality, how to monitor? is the supervision of the masses, the masses of the Authority, involves the petition, report this problem.
I think there is another issue, the news media are also public opinion important, should be said that clean government in Hong Kong, the reason they are doing better is because Hong Kong's media freedom in this report will be relatively large number of, basically a lot of things are included in official within their supervision, for example, that there something to, say, the husband because of Fu Mingxia a car, first leaked to the media to direct the resignation of the outgoing. In our domestic public opinion here, the power of these officials should be said that there are some weak, are generally out of this thing after officials said that the cadres and how we like how, before the cadres are good, good leadership, or fall into this range, I think that honesty is not the role of public opinion that what should , any teacher can not talk about?
Ren Jianming: an important part of public opinion is that we monitor the media in modern society becomes more and more important, because the media is a professional information institutions, it has its professional of our country should be realistic, we monitor the media or in progress, from the number of years ago, from the China Central Television that media monitoring Ye Hao, Ye Hao supervision of the masses, it seems some greater force.
Ren Jianming: Yes, more professional, provide this information platform. However, despite making progress, or to leave our country appropriate legal construction of roads, more recently, to judge, the State government information disclosure regulations out of this legislation, including this city, has the power to open a place of local government information laws, I personally think it is very important or called the press law, some countries called the Freedom of Information Act, that is, the media have given us access to information, right to information reported, but the obligation should have the right, that is, to have the authenticity of the information, the media have some responsibility, that is the law more clearly specified. We are now more or management by administrative measures, not a legal path toward.
I personally think that our future in addition to the Government's information disclosure laws, the other is a press law , free method that is increasingly important to give our media as an oversight body, an information platform that can play out his role. Now we have open government laws are more uncertain on the principle that that the principle of openness is not public is the exception, that is not open is an isolated case, and the government to explain why not open, is an invasion of privacy or violation of state secrets, the future we have to determine in the news such supervision principles. our tradition says, the media, journalists, that is true in most cases there is access to information, the right to release information, I think we go the way of a legal society. We are now more or by administrative agencies, Of course, I personally quite optimistic about the future of our country is moving forward to develop.
users: Please talk about any of the teacher, can not achieve such a situation after that honesty official report, not just some of the contents of the report provides a unified content, can the people named by the officials of a piece of a thing to be a specific explanation, such as Radio and TV in one place requires a clear leadership gifts make arrangements for the loss of his old problems The leaders said very clearly to eliminate the misunderstanding, and some local party secretary of the people some of the problems requires clear, he put a government property to low-cost two million sold, bribery of 5 million, and group requirements the end of this matter clearly, he did not end well, on the investigated. We can not have such a system, people can be led to a certain honesty about something, can point the name by someone else mentioned something, Is it possible to have such a system has it?
Ren Jianming: I think it is very good, where there is this attempt. In the final analysis, or to accept the supervision of our government and accept supervision from the Overall, these issues raised by the people, need to report things are matters related with public duties, are also included in the broader sense of the provisions of self-discipline there. I think two aspects, one aspect that is the government needs more and more clear, what matters must be reported. On the other hand, we should, because the final purpose or public right to know, this is a constitutional Ye Hao, modern legal Ye Hao important right, democratic right or let the people informed, the people concerned about what is important, protecting the interests of the masses, the operation of public rights of integrity is very important. the future I think this is worth promoting, that is, you are Honest and Clean, every year organize, before the welcoming crowd can have some time to mention this year's report on his work but also the leaders talk about, talk about what this directory in addition to the Government, the people also concerned about a problem, that is, for a leadership or a leadership team for the Government may at a hotel , may now be transformed, to have it auctioned off, the auction process may have black-box operations, the people on the attention to this matter, may the leaders of the weddings and funerals, the leaders of something, ah, I think this is better , is given a period of time to allow the group to provide, through the media Ye Hao, network collection, to the leaders at all levels, and then finished after the report because the people asked to be answer out of people to look, that I know you said not so matter what, I think this system will become more viable future, people will become interested, and will be interested. If, like other places do, we do not report, or some of the more general may be considered to be the masses slowly to show, show honesty, to not work, and I think this thing is to accept supervision by the masses themselves, so I think this is worth promoting.
Moderator: Fu examination on The problem is how to see, such as people with a leadership point of something, to carry out his demands for honesty on something, what is your view?
Fu Yanhua: First of all is permitted, at the meeting Honest and Clean on the existence of problems, ask questions if the people should provide a reasonable explanation, but what form a reasonable explanation is the explanation, because each council Honest and Clean out the higher authorities have a requirement to report to give you a call means that you can find anything to report at the meeting if the issue directly, it must stay in a place he was clearly the problem, the leaders should explain.
Moderator: That any teacher that can Very ...